And here.... we... go.

Discussion in '1989-1995 Build-Up/Project Threads' started by Litneon, Mar 26, 2010.

  1. sitnlow4life

    sitnlow4life Enthusiast

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    What are you running for injectors currently?

    I was looking at running the Green Top 7MGE injectors (315cc) ?

    Any suggestions ?

    Thanks
     
  2. Litneon

    Litneon Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Really depends on how much boost you want to run. The 315's are probably good for 7-8 pounds... A set of 7mgte injectors are 470's, and are good up to about 18 psi depending on the turbo. I'm currently running the 7m injectors, but I'm going to get a set of 650's-800's soon. I might actually run 1000's so that I can run a flex fuel sensor and E85.

    But with my current turbo and 17 psi, I'm maxing out the 470's with a rising rate FPR.
     
  3. REDZ

    REDZ Enthusiast

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    hey lit any updates?
     
  4. Litneon

    Litneon Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Not really. The turbo center section I got from Precision lasted only about 24 hours before it was toast. I've had the worst luck with turbos so far.

    BUT.... They really came through. They warrantied the turbo again, machined my painted compressor housing and ceramic coated turbine housing and sent it all back with a new center, and billet compressor wheel.

    Runs great now.

    Still haven't gotten the bigger injectors, money's been tight. That and I'm really trying to decide which direction to go with this build at this point.
    At 14 pounds of boost now, I'm maxing out the injectors. That means that every step I've taken so far has made the compressor more efficient, with more air and less boost. Still trying to wrap my head around that, but the Volumetric Efficiency map shows that it is real.
     
  5. 93_Toy_Mini

    93_Toy_Mini Addict

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    What about the infamous "rear end lift" all these fools keep talking about? Did experience anything other with the suspension?


     
  6. Litneon

    Litneon Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Not yet. Doesn't mean it can't happen, but it hasn't. My fear is that when it does, it will be violent, now that I've added a couple hundred horsepower.

    I've done a lot of thinking, drawing, and testing. My hypothesis as to why it would doesn't have anything to do with the "reverse" 4 link at all, except that the reversing of the system moves the mounts and the torque that the frame see further down the ladder.

    With a forward facing link setup, the forces are transferred into the frame no more than 5 feet or so from the front suspension (with an extra cab). Reversing the setup moves the transferring point another 5 feet away, allowing the frame itself to store energy in the form of a slight bow. When traction is overcome, the frame releases that energy until it hooks up again, and the cycle continues.
    Wheel hop is ONLY caused by the storage and subsequent release of energy and the frame is the only place that energy can be stored as long as all the bushings are in good order. This is extremely evident on a leaf sprung setup, as you can watch the spring bind and axle wrap.
     
  7. White Trash

    White Trash Toyotaholic

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    4x4's with radius arm front suspension will get violent axle breaking hop when spinning. It takes a very stiff shock to keep it in check so the tires will grip. It happens s because there is no way to add anti squat into the system. That is the biggest problem with reverse link setups. It isn't much of an issue on a mini truck with low horsepower but I bet once the horsepower level goes over 300 or so all it will do is really cool burnouts.

    "Truck arms" like used on 61ish to 72 chevy trucks have the opposite issue. They have good anti squat. Have you ever watched the farm truck on street outlaws rip the front tires off the ground with stock type suspension? It hooks and transfers the power forward great. One thing it doesn't do however is plant the back tires while braking. The rear has a tendency to hop rather than grip.
     
  8. first80toyota

    first80toyota Addict

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    60-66 chevy, as well as 67-72 had them. Definitely do hook up very well. (I own a 61)
     
  9. Litneon

    Litneon Super Moderator Staff Member

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    It doesn't do burn outs... at all.

    Kinda disappointing actually.

    During a launch, it doesn't really lift or lower the rear end much. It just goes. The built auto trans probably helps the power application by not being as abrupt as a clutch dump.

    So far, all the negative reverse 4 link hype has been absent from my experience. Most people regurgitate the same "facts" and have never tried to actually explain the physics behind their theory.

    The Squat/AntiSquat idea is probably correct, as the links are generally aimed towards the front on a 4 link, and you have to aim their intersecting points forward. But I'm not sure yet whether too much of either will cause wheel hop. More likely, a no traction (burnout) issue, or the opposite, whatever that may be.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2015
  10. 93_Toy_Mini

    93_Toy_Mini Addict

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    If I ever decide to change my suspension it will be because I want to replace the frame with some 3X2 tubing , not because of the suspension. I have only drove my truck a few times and tried some hard pulls with the stock 22RE. Did see or feel anything different in the suspension than how it drove before. My guess is that in some of these bad reverse builds there must have been more too the poor handling than suspension direction. More like fabrication errors... :rolleyes2:
     
  11. Litneon

    Litneon Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I keep going back to the Minitruckin Magazine article from years back that addressed link suspensions. They barely covered the reverse setup, but didn't have much to say about it, good or bad. Like many things on the old interweb, there are a lot of people who think they know everything about them, even though they may have no experience with them or suspension design in general. They continue to repeat the same old talking points.

    I think it'd be awesome if I had the time to actually do a comprehensive analysis of them and the other designs. Then I could officially publish my results and give the debate some real answers.

    Minitruckin's take on the reverse setup was that it does it's job and is impossible to inadvertently build in roll oversteer, which can make a home brew forward 4 link downright undrivable.
     
  12. REDZ

    REDZ Enthusiast

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    hey lit what size trigger wheel is this and whats in the little pink bag
     
  13. Litneon

    Litneon Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I can't remember, I'll have to measure it. Runs in my head that it might be the 6.75"?

    The bag contains a BIP for ignition spark control.
     
  14. Litneon

    Litneon Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Big changes coming.

    Ported a head to allow for ridiculous airflow...

    Swapped the a43d Auto for an A340E with a shift kit and MS2 modded trans controller.

    Swapped the MS2 engine management for an MS3.

    Rewiring the engine harness and chassis harness.

    Pics to follow...
     
  15. White Trash

    White Trash Toyotaholic

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    Shift kit? On the side of the valve body there is a round disc with steps around the edge and a slot for a flat tip screwdriver. Push in slightly and turn the disc in to a taller step. That adjusts the pressure relief to a higher value. There are 3 accumulators if I remember right on the valvebody. Pull them apart and slug the spring so they can only deflect 1/4" and put it back together. Now you'll have a trans that flat boots when it shifts. If i was running that trans in a 2wd rather than my 1 ton axled and 44" tire clad wheeler I have no doubts it would chirp the tires in any gear under power.


    Have you checked out www.RADesignsproducts.Com yet? Rory builds some sweet controllers and shifters. I ran his computer and steering wheel push button shifter setup on my wheeler.
     
  16. Litneon

    Litneon Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Hmm. Did you also use the LED gear indicator? He definitely has some cool products there, but I'm already on my way with the MegaSquirt. The a340 is fully supported with it too. With it the shift points for accel and decel are fully adjustable.
     
  17. White Trash

    White Trash Toyotaholic

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    Yes I ran the led indicator, shift controller and a one off steering wheel mounted push button box he machined from a solid chunk of aluminum. He also gave me a bunch of bits to build a paddle shifter setup but I ended up parting the truck out before I built it.
     
  18. NashMan

    NashMan Toyotaholic

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    another auto geeeeezz lol
     
  19. Litneon

    Litneon Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Haha. I knew I'd get some flak for that...

    It's the easiest way to spool up this big of a turbo, and heck... It's fun and consistent.
     
  20. REDZ

    REDZ Enthusiast

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    quick question is there a great difference with using the ms3 vs the ms2
     

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