Hey guys my 22re is missfiring at idle. Its an inconsistent miss fire. New plug wires, new Dizzy cap, plugs have 300 miles on them. All injectors were just flow tested and cleaned. Ignition coil has good resistance. Could it be ignition problem? The brand new cap had white marks on it and the plugs have this mark on the insulation? What should I check or test?
No mention of the year or model you're working on only leads to the inevitable question- What year and model are you working on? If it's a 22RE have you checked for any codes? Some codes won't trigger the CEL but ideally you don't want any codes being triggered. It certainly could be the ignition system but how long ago were the valves set? What spark plugs did you use? NGK or Denso? If Denso did you get them from the dealer? If they AREN'T dealer Denso plugs what part number did you use. What distributor cap and rotor did you use? The white marks on the distributor cap is pretty common.
Hey guys sorry for the late response Ive been really busy. Its a 1988 22RE FI the plug wires are set up to the right firing order. My missfiring became signifcantly worse after messing with it and this was do to the main lead off the coil to dizzy not all the way in. Got it in all the way and now its back to the very intermittent misfire. Seems to be worse at idle then when I rev it just a little bit the engine operation smooths out considerably. The idle is rough and when I put it into gear the whole truck shutters. Engine and tranny mounts are in good shape and tight. I pulled all 4 plugs today and marked there orientation in the cyylinder head comparing this to the old head (rebuilt motor is having this problem) all the carbon fouling were facing to the intake valve. Considerably worse on cylinder 1 & 4. I have read that this could be do to bad intake valve guide/seal. Any other ideas? would this cause the miss random missfiring and shake at idle? What should my next steps be? Leak down test? Plugs are new NGK not sure part number but I believe they were recommended. Worth buying new plugs? I dont want to buy new ones and have they same problem mess them up. Thanks - Andrew
Was this same thing happening BEFORE you replaced the plugs, cap & rotor? You of course gaped the plugs to .031? These are pretty much the only plugs you should be using on a stock engine. OEM Denso's PT#90919-01064 at the Dealership Service Center NGK V Power PT#BPR5EY (Stock#1233) You want to steer clear of this type of plug because the screw on tip can come loose even if you've tightened it down good. Vibrations will work it loose. Did you use any dielectric grease or anti seize? Some problems can occur when people use too much dielectric grease in the ignition system because it is a non conductive grease. If you used it clean it off and see how it does. If you used anti seize on the spark plugs how much did you use on them? Most people apply too much anti seize, very little anti seize is needed. Don't apply it to the first two threads. If to much is used it can actually create grounding problems and the spark will have to make big jumps to ground. If you got any anti seize on the inner porcelain it's game over. This is all it takes Pull the plugs and check for a cracked porcelain. This will cause an erratic miss and poor performance. It can be just a faint mark when the plugs are new.
So the plugs are the BPR5EY and are gaped to specifications. Timing is set up correctly and I have searched for significant vacuum leaks and found nothing. It had this same problem before I replaced the cap and plug wires. I have not replaced plugs since it was rebuilt. Since its a new cylinder head and plugs I didnt use any anti-seize. I had a semi-local engine builder go through the block and get me a new head and set up all the valves. What he forgot to do is machine off a little metal around the spark plug area. When I first installed the spark plugs my socket hit that metal and I assumed they were in all the way. This was 300miles ago. Combustion gases escaped and would pop off the plug wires. I found out what was going on. Grinded down my spark plug socket so it has thin walled and I was able to tighten all four down. Mayby this caused the fouling? as a result I now have intermittent miss fire? Another thing I saw is some sort of very light oil or something inside the dizzy and cap. I dont see any carbon tracks on the plugs or cap. Thanks, Andrew
The oil shouldn't be there. Have you checked the distributor for excessive shaft play? I'm running out of ignition checks. Have you checked the gap between the signal rotor to the pick up coil in the distributor? What spark plug wires do you have? There are some that are straight out crap. You might want to check the resistance. Use alligator clips when you do it and bend the wire in several places to make sure there isn't an internal break in the wire. If the ohms start cutting in and out it's a bad wire, always double check. Time for a compression check to rule that out.
Does the engine have a slight miss at idle? Is there a slight miss at lower rpm (sub 1000) steady throttle? Does the engine run smoothly otherwise if the answer to the first two questions was yes? If so the high mileage injectors are just complaining and should be either rebuilt or replaced.
^ In his very first post on the issue. Later on he mentioned the bottom end is rebuilt so combined with a new head the compression and leak down "Should" be fine, but it never hurts to check. I have seen valves that don't seal worth a damn on fresh heads. At this point maybe just replace the two darker spark plugs and see what happens. Plugs are cheap. You might try cleaning all of the grounding points for the engine and the ECU. I'd pull both kick panels and start cleaning those grounds up. I think there's a couple on each side. Having good clean grounds that make metal to metal contact is often overlooked even by those who should know better. Make sure they have metal to metal contact, not metal to paint or metal to rust. You might have to scrape some paint off to achieve it. This includes where the main ground strap is bolted to the block ..fresh paint You might as well clean the ground behind the head of the alternator bolt and the power wire for the alternator while you're at it. You mentioned the engine was rebuilt. Sometimes people brake ground wires or forget to hook them back up when they remove the head or rebuild the engine. The ground is 1/2 the circuit so it's especially important on a car with an ECU and FI. Search for the 22RE Ground Wire Guide over at yotatech to help locate most of the engines grounds. Next take a small brass brush and CLEAN your grounds. A visual inspection will not suffice and has fooled many and left them chasing their tail. If you find a missing or broken ground replace it. Going to the next size thicker wire (8 or 6 awg for body grounds) is also a good idea. Apply a dab of dielectric grease to the connector then spread it thin with your fingers. A thin film is all you want or need. It will go a long way to keep those connections from corroding. Even if cleaning all of the grounds doesn't help the engine miss I'd be willing to bet it will improve something you didn't realize was running a little low on power like the dash lights, heater fan, maybe even the fuel pump.
Maybe it's wiping a cam lobe? There have also been cases of cam REgrinders messing up. There is a thread over on yotatech where two people had a miss at idle and they were using the same manufacture's cam grind. It wasn't because of long duration or small lobe separation either. After they changed to a different manufacturer's cam the miss vanished on both engines.
Thanks for all the great responses its much appreciated! The Injectors were cleaned and flow tested like I said. I went ahead and replaced all 4 spark plugs today since they were cheap and saw no diffrence. It misses the most at idle and runs rough but smooths out and hardly misses with increase in rpm. I will try to get a video up tomorrow or Saturday. Mayby another clue when I smogged it (wasnt missing then) it had very high NOX passed by 5 parts per million. HC and every thing else looked fine. I put a thin metal sheet to block off the EGR on the back of the intake and saw no difference. (My name says Texas but I live in Cali right now and this truck has all the cali emissions crap if that makes a difference) I have not checked the gap on the pickup coil but the resistance of it checked out okay. I will look at distributer end shaft play and double check my valves are adj. correctly. It seems like I may need to do a compression test. This will probably be a pain in the ass since I have to shave off part of the head to fit the tester in there. Ill post picks of that too when I get a chance. Any way this could be a clogged CAT? I may buy a vaccum gauge tester this weekend and see if that reveals anything as well. Might as well add it to the toolbox as well. The CAM is original factory so i dont think that would cause the problem unless I set it up wrong? Thanks, Andrew
I don't know much when it comes to emissions stuff but from what I understand high NOX is most often caused by a somewhat plugged or totally plugged up EGR line, a cracked or leaking vacuum line or hose, an incorrectly routed vacuum hose, or a clogged CAT. Some people say it can also be caused by a failed VSV. I have no clue and am just guessing but since it is present at idle but gets better with rpm, but doesn't go away.. You might consider taking it to a shop and having them fog/smoke test it for vacuum leaks. That is a better test than spraying carb cleaner around or using an unlit torch. After watching several do it yourself videos and looking at websites I'm going to try to build myself a smoke tester out of a paint can, cigar and other stuff. After I sprayed carb cleaner around I know for sure I have a leak at my throttle body and one at the intake runner where it's bolted to the head. I simply want a better way of retesting for leaks.
Also check for a faulty egr modulator. Also check the large hose between the air meter and the throttle body. That allows air to bypass the meter, so it would tell the computer that less air is going into the motor than really is. Personally I wouldn't be able to tel you if it's an air leak causing higher than normal NOX. Supposedly you can take 5 of the post CAT readings and enter it into a Lambda calculator. This site is down but you might be able to find the same info by looking for the same subject matter. Copy and post: This calculation works for post cat numbers and is 100% accurate for your A/F ratio. try it Lambda Calculator - Smog Check*Star Certified Roseville Sacramento Area http://www.smogstats.com/Lambda_CAT.aspx What Causes High NO - Nitrous Oxide - SmogTips.com. Why did my car fail emission test high NO emissions. What is NO. My vehicle failed high nitrous oxide emissions test. Produced high NO. Common high NO failures. NO emissions. How can I lower NOx. Co
Hey guys - I have been really busy and haven't had a chance to really do anything to the truck until this week. So I have eliminated the miss fire now there was a bad connection at the ignition coil leading to the cap. Fixed that but it still ran like crap after messing around with it I did a compression test got 180, 184, 178, 178 and on the cylinder leak down test I had around 5-7% leakage per cylinder - both not bad. My timing has been really weird where it didnt idle down with the connector jumped. After some reading and reserch I pulled the TPS and sure enough the spring was gummed up on the sensor so it wasnt returning to the closed positon. A little carb cleaner on the spring cleaned it up and allowed it to snap shut. I adjusted it to spec with my multimeter and was able to set the timing to 5 BTDC. Now it runs decent but im back to my orginal problem; when in gear and stopped at idle the whole truck shakes? Motor and tranny mounts look good, What should idle be set to? and what should I see it in gear? In neutral or park the motor is nice and smooth but shakes once in gear and as soon as i pull away from a stop the shake goes away. Ive looked high and low for a vaccum leak with no results.
