Lowering kit or air ride?

Discussion in 'Suspension/Chassis' started by shawnz82, Aug 5, 2022.

  1. Erwin Merida

    Erwin Merida Addict

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2016
    Messages:
    686
    Likes Received:
    218
    Location:
    Long Beach, California
    Truck:
    LEXXXI - '93 Toyota Pickup shorty, with 5 on the floor!
    And just throw on some real good shocks. Even adjustable gas ones would be sweet!
     
  2. sirdeuce

    sirdeuce Enthusiast

    Joined:
    May 8, 2020
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    84
    The IRS and 4-link are about the same weight as the leaf sprung axle, indeed, The reason for going to either allows a lighter connection between the road and frame. Leaf springs feel heavy and unforgiving. An IRS set-up offers a direct coupling to the road and has the ability to be infinately tuned. I've driven a few minis with the mods mentioned. The 4-link/coils is a HUGE improvement for straight line traction and braking but still tends to be "light" in the ass. The IRS, this was a Corvette IRS rear conversion, felt solidly planted everywhere. Didn't feel light or bouncy. It was well done and cost a LOT of money. Nice thing about either of these mods is the options of springs and dampers and the ability to tune the suspension.

    Just putting it out there.
     
  3. shawnz82

    shawnz82 Newbie

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2022
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    West Hills, CA
    Truck:
    '86, 2wd, 22r, 5 speed
    sirduece, can you point me to the parts for the entire set up you are referring to?
     
  4. Pearce

    Pearce Addict

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2019
    Messages:
    953
    Likes Received:
    379
    Location:
    Washington
    Truck:
    1973 hilux
    I think the irs or 4 link was more of a reply to me saying not much you could do about the rear end suspension. Not a real suggestion. I was only saying that because it didnt sound like you are looking to take it under the knife and do major fabrication. One suggestion I would make if you are really interested in independent suspension is to look into the jag rear ends. A common swap in the hotrod world.
     
  5. sirdeuce

    sirdeuce Enthusiast

    Joined:
    May 8, 2020
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    84
    Wouldn't know where to start for the IRS, it would most likely be custom. The Jag rear end WAS easy to source and didn't require as much work. If you were to go the IRS route look for a "capsulated" system like the '90s Corvette where everything is an assembly where the diff carrier is also the control arm and shock anchor. Don't look at a system where everything is mounted to the chassis separately.

    4-link can be sourced through whatever shop you took it to, or look at "Jegs" and the like.

    For the knuckles and leafs I got mine from Belltech.
     
  6. sirdeuce

    sirdeuce Enthusiast

    Joined:
    May 8, 2020
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    84
    Yeah the Jag set-up was easy to adapt, so was the Vette. I believe the Vette equipment is a bit lighter and had a single composite leaf type spring anchored in the middle using the ends for separate springs. From what I remember the Jag used coils. I think the Vette could be the easier adaptation in the case of our little trucks.

    It's all a walk down memory lane. The good 'ol days of how can I make that work with that?
     
    Erwin Merida likes this.
  7. Ponyryd

    Ponyryd Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2022
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    12
    Without huge cash outlay and huge amounts of work and skill you won’t be able to make it ride like a car, it’s that simple. I personally plan on buying a Tacoma eventually and doing an irs rear just to be different and maybe do some road racing or drift events, but that’s a long way away.
    If you want to soften the ride you can certainly remove the middle leaf spring, you’ll likely get about a 2” drop in the rear and it will ride softer while still being able to carry a load of 500 lbs (barely). You can also loosen the front torsion bars to match the rear drop and that will make the front ride softer, both of these mods will be free (if you have the tools/skill/space), so no loss besides your time. Otherwise you’ll want to keep the wheels as small as possible, these trucks come with 14” so keep them on and keep the tall factory sidewall or maybe go up to a slightly taller tire to soften the ride even more, go with a P tire instead of an LT as it will be softer.
     
  8. sirdeuce

    sirdeuce Enthusiast

    Joined:
    May 8, 2020
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    84
    Sorry, lowering height by adjusting the torsion bar doesn't soften the suspension. The torsion bar remains at the same spring rate no matter the ride height. Only way to soften the front suspension is to soften the spring. Pretty sure you won't find a softer torsion bar.
    Lowering your vehicle AND reducing the spring rates will make you very unhappy. Typically, lowering a vehicle reduces the suspension travel. There are a few cars I've had the displeasure of driving where the suspension seemed to have no travel limit and i can tell you it's no fun bouncing the frame on the road. Reducing your spring rates with reduced suspension travel can make a poor ride, constantly hammering the limits and just having a sloppy feel. Not saying lower and softer can't be done, not without a bit of engineering behind it. Best way would be with air.

    My opinion is the Toyota minitruck spring rate is aleady soft, but that's my feel. Lowering a vehicle is a game of give and take. Going into the project knowing you will lose some of your ride quality is a good start. Second consideration is your budget. No budget=shitty ride, massive budget=happiness. For just adjusting the ride with a twist and blocks requires finding dampers and an alignment that will make you comfprtable. I don't like blocks for going up or down, but removing a spring from the pack is definately not the wat to go, especially without reducing the front rate to match. So many things to consider to build a ride you like while keeping it safe as well.

    I'm a bit opinionated, I know, but I've seen the good and the bad. Modding your suspension willy-nilly can kill you, and me. Don't go into it without any decent thought or plan.
     
  9. Ponyryd

    Ponyryd Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2022
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    12
    The difference is ride quality will be minimal, but there will be a difference regardless. And removing a leaf spring is not dangerous, why would it be?
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2022
  10. sirdeuce

    sirdeuce Enthusiast

    Joined:
    May 8, 2020
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    84
    Changing suspension parameters without supporting mods, can reduce the tire contact control. for one. It also changes the balance of the suspension front to rear. There is a reason the rates are engineered into the spring and dampers. Even with utility vehicles. Even raising and lowering the vehicle without supporting mods can render ANY suspension dangerous.

    Removing a leaf from a spring pack is a substantial decrease in spring rate.
    Removing a leaf from a spring pack increases the load on the reaning springs and cause a failure.
    Removing a leaf from a spring pack will decrease the tire contact control in the rear tires.
    Reducing the rear spring rate effectively INCREASES the front spring rate by allowing an unplanned weight transfer. Same effect as loading the rear decreases the front suspension. Both situations cause an increased tendency to understeer and decrease front brake efficiency.
     
    Erwin Merida likes this.
  11. Pearce

    Pearce Addict

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2019
    Messages:
    953
    Likes Received:
    379
    Location:
    Washington
    Truck:
    1973 hilux
    I don't have much time with a low car but the most uncomfortable thing about them is the thought of scrapping. I see some dips I'm the road I clinch up and make holes in the seat. Lol
     
  12. Erwin Merida

    Erwin Merida Addict

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2016
    Messages:
    686
    Likes Received:
    218
    Location:
    Long Beach, California
    Truck:
    LEXXXI - '93 Toyota Pickup shorty, with 5 on the floor!
    The lower you go, the slower you drive. Unless your state spends the correct amount of taxpayer $$$ for road repairs
     
  13. sirdeuce

    sirdeuce Enthusiast

    Joined:
    May 8, 2020
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    84
    And you are scared to spit it out, 'cause, what if it's not seat padding?
     
  14. sirdeuce

    sirdeuce Enthusiast

    Joined:
    May 8, 2020
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    84
    In this town my stock height Mazdaspeed3 can't drive through the street swales.
     
    Erwin Merida likes this.
  15. TRUCK ACTION

    TRUCK ACTION Grand Toyotaholic

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2008
    Messages:
    4,043
    Likes Received:
    450
    Location:
    Vallejo,Ca.
    Truck:
    88 Extracab,2wd
    I've drive my bagged 88 5,000 plus miles a year to shows all over Nor Cal , to So Cal, OR, WA , & NV.
    My ride height is 4.5 , I can lift it in & out of driveways & for speed bumps.
    I cruise at 75 to 85 & have had it to 120, it handles & drives great
    I did a lot of research on what works & what does not, & on every part I've used, even keep a parts & suppliers book, with every part that that is on my truck, also a spread sheets on all cost to date .
    Front Beltech dropped spindles , CanDo tubular control arms , Doestech shocks & Slam RE6 bags, 18X225 Sumitomo HZIII TIRES & 12.5 Wilwood rotors w/ Toyota 4 Runner 4 piston calipers,
    At the rear sits a forward mounted tri-4link set up w/ Firestone 9000 sleeve bags mounted 5'' forward of the axle, & again Doestech shocks , w/ 12'' Ford SVO rotors & Cadie 48mm single piston calipers.
    My air management is Air Lift H3.
    Powering my truck is a LC stage 1 pro street 22 RE, with all the extras they recommended , a 5 speed W58 Supra trans, the rear end is stock.
    Built my me , for me & lots of fun to drive & show! When built right air ride is great!
     
    Erwin Merida and jetas like this.
  16. jetas

    jetas Grand Toyotaholic

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2009
    Messages:
    6,274
    Likes Received:
    921
    Location:
    Oxnard, CA
    Truck:
    72.5 Hilux
    Mines bagged, drive maybe 3" off the ground. And i drive the shit out of my truck. If it scrapes it scrapes.

    had a 2014 Scion xB on coilovers was about 3-4" off the ground, drivethe fck outta that too.
    Had a 2012 xB bagged, drove the fuck outta that too.
    My wifes scion tC is lowers and scrapes, our Venza is on coilovers and scrapes.

    its part of the game, cant get closer to the ground without eventually touching it.

    this man wants to lower his truck a little and still have load carrying capacity. Drop blocks and spindles will accomplish that. Someone let me know when the last time was they scraped with that drop.
     
    Erwin Merida likes this.
  17. Pearce

    Pearce Addict

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2019
    Messages:
    953
    Likes Received:
    379
    Location:
    Washington
    Truck:
    1973 hilux
    Na in Tacoma driving slow can cost you your life. Unless you're in a clean af slab no one will be happy with you driving slow.
     
    Erwin Merida and jetas like this.
  18. Ponyryd

    Ponyryd Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2022
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    12
    Lol, so we should all drive a bone stock Prius? Live a little bud, maybe a snickers will help….
    I’ve been driving lowered shit for 20years+, great times, and no failures or issues.
     
  19. Pearce

    Pearce Addict

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2019
    Messages:
    953
    Likes Received:
    379
    Location:
    Washington
    Truck:
    1973 hilux
    I feel you but not much reason to dismiss the facts. My daily has a common problem of breaking the ball joint. If you lower it you make the problem worse. A lot of slammed guys not spending the money on the upgrades are replacing them regularly.
     
  20. MrDinkleman

    MrDinkleman Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2013
    Messages:
    469
    Likes Received:
    77
    Location:
    SoCal
    Truck:
    1988 standard cab, long bed
    Sorry for the drift but what is it like when the ball joint pops? You swerve into the wall? Front just collapses and you slow down?

    Thanks
     

Share This Page