Gearing Behaviors

Discussion in '1976-1983 Pickup Discussion' started by 83pickup, Mar 1, 2023.

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  1. 83pickup

    83pickup Enthusiast

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    Greetings all!
    This is, hopefully, more of a discussion post, or maybe it's a symptom of some sort of which I am hoping it is not, unless this is a feature? of sorts on W52-equipped trucks, or all except the automatics.
    So, as long as I've been learning manual, and driving it occasionally not to mention more since I've got my license this past Saturday!, the behavior of first, second, and third on my truck are as follows, correlating to my relationship with the clutch operations:

    1st Gear: Depending if I properly launch the truck, 1st gear "lasts" until 15ish MPH per the owner's manual, and since my truck is not equipped with a tachometer and based on my limited knowledge of engine speeds at certain RPMs (aka guesstimating) it revvs up as normal and 2nd Gear follows, then 3rd when following the speed limit of 45mph on the streets.

    If I do not properly launch the truck (excessive engine lugging of sorts/improper clutch and accelerator timing), 1st gear has the unusual behavior of lasting all the way to ~35-40 mph without much of the RPMs increasing until about half way on the speedometer. In the owner's manual, 1st gear is quoted in the "Recommended shifting speeds" and "Maximum allowable speeds" for gasoline engines as follows:
    Recommended for 1-2: 15mph | Maximum for 1-2: 31mph
    If this is a "feature" or something to do with the transmission because of my improper launching of my truck, should I worry about it or downplay it as simple transmission behavior? :thinking:

    2nd Gear: If the truck was properly launched, 2nd gear is engaged after 1st @ 15mph, 2nd gear lasts until 35 (I cannot dictate RPMs properly off of ear so whenever it starts singing loud I upshift to avoid over-revving since I believe these trucks do not have RPM limiters)

    If the truck was NOT launched properly in 1st gear: 2nd gear is "extended" and lasts much higher since 1st gear went up to 35-40mph. Don't usually engage 2nd gear if the truck was improperly launched since once I reach 35-40mph in 1st, I go into 3rd and the transmission above these gears acts normally. Downshifting from 3rd to 2nd in this "Improper Launch" mode has no effect from what I have tried on the road. Engine RPMs are significantly lower. IF this changes from my documentation of driving, I will update it

    3rd Gear: If the truck was properly launched from the start, 3rd gear is engaged at inbetween 35-40 mph, and is the ideal cruising gear at 45mph per street regulations. On highway driving, to the best of my memory, haven't driven it much on the freeways recently, 3rd gear lasts until I'm after the gore zone on the entering lane of the freeway, then I hop into 4th once I'm going, and once 4th starts to get buzzy (typically around 55 mph), I go into Overdrive/5th gear for the rest of my trip unless there are some sections of slow traffic, then 4th gear will be ridden. If this is an improper/early shift, please let me know, I'm open to experimenting my driving habits!

    If the truck was NOT launched properly from the beginning: 3rd gear is chosen after 1st gear ends at between 35-40mph, gear behaves normally when cruising on the streets at the posted 45mph signs. Gear behaves regularly for some reason, peculiar indeed :thinking:

    4th Gear: Used only on highway driving/some outskirts driving depending on the speed limits (very rare); it exists and it works when it needs to, will write more about behavior when I get the chance to take my truck on the faster expressways when I can and I will write about its behavior!

    5th Gear/Overdrive: Used after 4th gear's buzziness gets to a threshold of tolerance on the freeway (50? mph is when 5th gets engaged) When in 5th gear and hovering at 55mph, it does get buzzy! Anything above 60 is quiet as can be.

    Reverse is fine, can be a bit finnicky but I will have to drive more and note down it's behavior.

    If you knowledgeable people have some information to throw at me about driving and anything really, do let me know! A bit of a longer read but this accurately describes my gears' behaviors and I am just curious to know what it's about! Thanks. :)
     
  2. jetas

    jetas Grand Toyotaholic

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    Get a cheap tach, Auto Gage is the cheaper option from Auto Meter, quality seems good. it's difficult to say how you should drive your truck, i normally shift around 2500-3k in any gear for normal driving. If I'm slowing down and i feel it's wanting to bog then i downshift. I do look at my speedo also but it's usually all by feel.

    1-2 ~12-15mph
    2-3 ~25mph
    3-4~35mph.
    I can cruise in 4th around 40mph but by that time i end up in 5th to keep the RPMs down. As i slow down i go off of these speeds to downshift if i somehow forget what gear im in

    Manual transmissions are just gears. The input shaft spins the gears inside and that spins the output shaft. Theres no way to get more mph from the same gear unless you're at a higher RPM.

    Unless your clutch is staying slightly disengaged or something it should just work. Your engine may be the one acting funny.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2023
  3. fred heath

    fred heath Addict

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    Shifting is usually done by “feel”. Don’t get hung up on mph shifting. As you drive your truck more you’ll learn when to upshift or downshift. Shift earlier than you think you need to. If the engine starts “lugging” shift back to the lower gear. Over time you’ll learn your truck.
     
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  4. 83pickup

    83pickup Enthusiast

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    Yea, the slug lug of the improper launching is something I guess I will simply have to get better at driving to eliminate; not sure how an aftermarket tachometer works since I am 99% positive these trucks didnt come with one originally, so how would that work? Will have to research that but that is a good idea too. Don't really want to drill anywhere since everything is original and minty as can be :(


    Yep, that's what my mom taught me when she was driving the truck on occasion. Usually after it gets buzzy in 1st at a certain time that's the sweet spot to upshift. Still have an occasional improper take off but that's much rarer now/only happens in low speed conditions (congested neighborhoods, tight windy roads, traffic) but I've been only getting better at driving it!

    Speaking of which, is downshifting to use the engine braking when exiting a freeway/high-speed scenario a good idea? I.E. 5th gear -> 4th gear -> 3rd gear -> 2nd gear and so on. Seems like engine braking is nice for not having to use the brakes as often buuut I'm just curious to know, I guess rather some pads than the entire clutch :silly:
     
  5. jetas

    jetas Grand Toyotaholic

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    "Engine braking" is something i'll do when i need to stop faster. Brake pads are easier to replace than a clutch. Ive learned to look ahead far enough to know im going to have to slow down up ahead and I'll just coast and down shift as needed to not bog the engine.

    just keep driving it more and you'll just get comfortable to driving it.

    as far as the tach, its a 5 wire hookup, power, ground, negative coil wire and 2 for the illumination. Only one wire needs to be run to the engine bay, everything else can be had inside the cab
     
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  6. fred heath

    fred heath Addict

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    The only time I use engine braking is when going down a really long incline. Brake pads can heat up with prolonged use and become less effective. Many times I use a combination of both.
     
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  7. 83pickup

    83pickup Enthusiast

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    Yea, that sounds like a more appropriate use. I'll reserve the engine braking for more hilly driving experiences then.


    Indeed, indeed. I'll use the brakes since that's what they're meant to do! I've learned from a construction working friend of mine that pulsing the pedal is used to not overheat the brakes, seems to do the trick.

    Yep, also learned something new today: I believe it's called "Double Clutching" and it's essentially like this for example:
    1st gear ending -> Clutch in, to Neutral, re-engage Clutch in neutral -> 2nd Gear
    This seems to remedy improper launches and seems to remedy the unusual behavior I have with gears going longer than I believe they should, even so I was using 4th gear on the streets! Double Clutching is something to practice to get faster at for sure, I'll use it more often.

    Never modified any vehicles in my fleet so a tachometer would be a first for me should I do it myself, but it seems easy enough like many things on these old truck. Will keep it in mind! :waytogo:
     
  8. fred heath

    fred heath Addict

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    Double clutching was used in the old days because synchronizing gearing was sometimes difficult. Usually when applying lots of torque so as not to miss a gear. You certainly can practice this for fun, but todays transmission with synchronization takes all the guess work out of shifting. You can also shift slowly which would today have the same effect as double clutching.

    A favorite saying back in the old days for missing a gear when shifting: “If you can’t find em ….. grind em”.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2023
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  9. jetas

    jetas Grand Toyotaholic

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    Yea double clutching doesnt seem to be a practice anyone does anymore. Theres no need for it tbh. Just drive and get more comfortable with the truck, theres no magic driving trick. I believe even seasoned drivers still occasionally have shitty launches and dont think shit of it other than "yikes" and keep moving

    I'll say this for sure, the one thing i do as a terrible habit on take off from a stop is blip the throttle before i actually launch. Seems to help with any potential bog the engine may have from my shitty foot work
     
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  10. 83pickup

    83pickup Enthusiast

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    Well, it does appear to do something since it does help with bad launches, and somehow affects the behavior of the gear lengths (not too sure on the technical term). Could just be my clutch or something with the engine :looney: Or maybe I'm going crazy
     
  11. jetas

    jetas Grand Toyotaholic

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    Manual transmissions are just gears on shafts. The gears just spin. A given gear is only going to spin so fast and its all relevant on the input RPM.

    If the way your truck runs changes at every green light then something else is wrong and it not your transmission. A manual trans is just that, manual. The ratios dont change to give you an extra 15mph in a gear by simply double clutching or some other dumb shit, this isnt Fast & Furious.

    Just keep driving it and stop overthinking of how to fix a crappy launch dude.

    get a tach, go here http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html and see the RPM/MPH correlation.
     
  12. fred heath

    fred heath Addict

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    Only thing that comes to mind is bad synchros. But no mention of grinding was made. Or maybe the clutch slave needs adjustment.
    Hey, with less than 100hp let him double shift until his heart’s content. No matter how fast you double shift it’s still slower than regular shifting.
     
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  13. 83pickup

    83pickup Enthusiast

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    The only nitpick I have is fifth is a bit stiff and Reverse is finnicky when shifting into it, someone said it could be a selector fork, but that's minor-ish.
    The Clutch Slave seems to be a bit leaky, and it could go for a fluid change. Adjustment, I'll have to learn how to do that and see how it works, could be that or the fact I was learning to drive on the current clutch in it which might be another factor.

    Not crazy for speed, but it does seem to play out the gears at their proper speeds per the owner's manual, so i'll just have to experiment and figure out the quirks!
     
  14. jetas

    jetas Grand Toyotaholic

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    Could also be a worn out clutch or master/slave cyl. Giving you weird reactions when you drive.
     
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  15. 83pickup

    83pickup Enthusiast

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    Considering it's the vehicle I am learning driving a manual on entirely, it could be that as a strong possibility. I have also heard the term "burning/burnt the clutch" and what exactly does this indicate or signify? Someone said there is a very distinct smell for it, but my sense of smell is not the strongest to say. Don't know if I could've done that, or what the symptoms are of it, but it would be good to know.
     
  16. jetas

    jetas Grand Toyotaholic

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    The clutch disc couldve been shot before you even got it. IF it is gone you would A. Hear terrible sounds. 2. It wouldnt accelerate very well or you would have the RPMs shoot up without any speed gained.

    it smells very similar to cooked brake pads just slightly more offensive IMHO
     
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  17. Pearce

    Pearce Toyotaholic

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    I've added a tacho and a rev limiter and I'll say non are necessary even for someone starting out. Never really looking at the tac or on limiter. The feeling of not making power is pretty noticeable. Roll down the window if you have trouble hearing the engine and what it's telling you. The odd behavior of first is probably just not knowingly starting in third. I find as soon as you can get the vehicle rolling you should be able to get off the clutch and creep. Depending on your gearing the speed that you stall will be different though. As long as you are in first getting on the gas will be smooth and not result in lugging. I'm not exactly sure what first would have to rev to to reach 30 but the 20r/22r is rated to spin about 5k with stock parts. If 15 mph is about max speed of first I would think 30mph would be about 10k rpms. It's not making power at 10k or ever going to take that abuse.
     
  18. 83pickup

    83pickup Enthusiast

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    So, I've made a new discovery about my 3rd gear: giving it some more revvs in 2nd (up to ~26-30 mph) and giving it a proper shove into 3rd seems to have remedied the lugging issue I've experience before. Fixed by PFM as one of my old auto teachers would say... Pure F***ing magic I suppose. That or maybe frequent double-clutching beforehand did something...
     
  19. sirdeuce

    sirdeuce Veteran

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    Best thing I can say to someone learning to drive stick, don't overthink it.

    If you are taking the plunge, congratulations, of driving a manually shifted transmission you'll find it's more of a "feel" than thought. Best advice? Just drive. If you burn out your clutch you'll have something else to learn about being a proper automotive owner/operator, maintenance and repair. Maintenance and repair are the threshold drugs to modifying your vehicle. Just part of the life.

    To be a good driver you need to develope a relationship with your vehicle. It's not a math problem.
     
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  20. Pearce

    Pearce Toyotaholic

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    Learn the throw of the gear lever a little and check for slop. Having trouble with third could be over thinking where it is. I just let it fall back into neutral and go straight up or down for 3rd or 4th. May have some worn parts keeping it from resting in the center causing your missed shifts. Luckily if you shifted into 5th thinking it's third you'll probably never feal the need to shift again. Otherwise you're grinding your reverse gear. Lol
     
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