Completed 22R swap, diagnosing vibration...

Discussion in 'Engine/Drivetrain' started by Henry, Jul 3, 2021.

  1. Henry

    Henry Enthusiast

    Joined:
    May 18, 2013
    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Washington State
    Just completed a 20R to 22R swap on my 77. Swapped the w50 from the 20R (originally was on this engine) back onto the 22R.

    I've driven the 78 this engine came out of. It was a little noisy, but like I figured the timing chain guide was destroyed. Before the swap I put in new guides, new seals, etc. Engine was running a little rough at first. New plugs, and tuning the carb made a huge difference. Decided to also do a valve adjustment and that helped even more. I had a weird vibration on the first few tests drives that I figured was due to the rough idle, etc.

    Now that the engine is running much better, the vibration is very noticeable and it feels like it's coming from the clutch/flywheel/etc area. I should have purchased a new clutch assembly, but after spending a descent amount freshening up the engine I figured I could save a few bucks and reuse the one that came on the 22R. It appeared to be in great shape so why not? Maybe this is the issue.

    • The vibration is noticeable at idle with the clutch in or out. No difference.
    • I'm not sure if video will pick it up but there is an audible noise associated with it at idle
    • Smooths out at higher rpm, but it still noticeable
    • When the w50 was on the 20R I didnt have any issues with this kind of vibration

    I'm not as mechanically inclined as many of you on this forum so I'm assuming I may have reinstalled something incorrectly. Is it possible to reinstall the flywheel/clutch/pressure plate in a way that would cause it to be out of balance?
     
  2. sirdeuce

    sirdeuce Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2020
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    13
    Things I've come across that sound like your issue.

    The flywheel installed off clock, not so evident with most 4 bangers, but if the flywheel was balanced to the rotating assy. and installed off TDC the whole balance would be off. On the 22R this can be an issue with lightened internals. Always mark the flywheel to #1 TDC and install it the same way just to be safe. Even when going from one engine to another.

    Dirt between the crank and flywheel mating surfaces. Causes the flywheel to wobble.

    Loose flywheel bolts. Causes oh so many issues. Worst of which is mushrooming the end of the flywheel.

    I'd put in either not properly aligning the clutch disc as that can jack up the pilot bearing and/or clutch hub if you were to force the input shaft in.

    No pilot bearing or bad pilot bearing. Cause misalignment of the tranny input shaft and that would cause a vibration likr feel as it destroys the input shaft bearing.

    With all that said, it could be an internal issue with the engine like a bent rod or crank or rod or main bearing. Maybe a foreign object in the #4 cylinder. Maybe just a misfire. In any case, try to find out what it is before it possibly does any major damage.

    Good luck!
     
    Henry likes this.
  3. Henry

    Henry Enthusiast

    Joined:
    May 18, 2013
    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Washington State
    Thanks for your reply.

    Unfortunately when I removed the flywheel to get this on an engine stand I didn't bother marking the orientation of the flywheel. I've never had issues in the past with different engines, but maybe that was a mistake on my part. Is that common with 22Rs? In the future I'll take your advice and set everything to TDC when removing items like the flywheel. Seems like good insurance.

    I guess I should focus on the engine first before going through the trouble of pulling the transmission.


    I've changed the plugs on the engine so I assuming it can't be that. I guess I could swap the spark plug wires and see if there is a difference that I can detect.
     
  4. Erwin Merida

    Erwin Merida Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2016
    Messages:
    337
    Likes Received:
    75
    Location:
    Long Beach, California
    Truck:
    LEXXXI - '93 Toyota Pickup shorty, with 5 on the floor!
    Post a video.
     
  5. Henry

    Henry Enthusiast

    Joined:
    May 18, 2013
    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Washington State
    I have a little video I shot today and will upload it tomorrow.

    One thing I did notice is the sound appears to have changed slightly (...or I'm hearing things) after the valve adjustment. Is there a simple way to determine if it's a valve related sound, or find out if there is an issue with one of the valves with the head still on the engine?
     
  6. jetas

    jetas Grand Toyotaholic

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2009
    Messages:
    5,993
    Likes Received:
    778
    Location:
    Oxnard, CA
    Truck:
    72.5 Hilux
    The rockers are known to tap the valve cover if its overtightened. Maybe you didnt tighten it down as much as it was plus the valve adjustment helped
     
  7. Henry

    Henry Enthusiast

    Joined:
    May 18, 2013
    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Washington State
    Is it possible this could also be the cause of the vibration? I sounds as if it's coming from the rear of the valve cover area.
     
  8. jetas

    jetas Grand Toyotaholic

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2009
    Messages:
    5,993
    Likes Received:
    778
    Location:
    Oxnard, CA
    Truck:
    72.5 Hilux
    I mean shit how bad is it shaking?
     
  9. Henry

    Henry Enthusiast

    Joined:
    May 18, 2013
    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Washington State
    It's not terrible but the 20R was much smoother in comparison. The idle is around 900-1000 and any lower will aggerate the problem.

    Here is a short video I shot that hopefully will capture some of what I can hear. 2:37 is a good example of it

     
  10. Pearce

    Pearce Addict

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2019
    Messages:
    767
    Likes Received:
    277
    Location:
    Washington
    Truck:
    1973 hilux
    Kind of just sounds like rockers. Has a little bit of the tractor sound going on off idle that could be you carb needing a tune up or exhaust leak. How long does that smoke at the exhaust last?
     
  11. Henry

    Henry Enthusiast

    Joined:
    May 18, 2013
    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Washington State
    I did notice a small exhaust leak on the manifold. Looks like I may have a stripped stud.

    I've tuned the carb the best I know how using the supplied documentation that came with the Weber. It also has a set of new gapped spark plugs.

    I hadn't ran it for a few days but I believe the exhaust clears up after a few minutes. I'll keep an eye on it.
     
  12. jetas

    jetas Grand Toyotaholic

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2009
    Messages:
    5,993
    Likes Received:
    778
    Location:
    Oxnard, CA
    Truck:
    72.5 Hilux
    I second the sound coming from the rockers. Could just be tapping the valve cover. And i have to say i saw no excess vibration.

    hell mine shakes like crazy compared to that
     
  13. Pearce

    Pearce Addict

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2019
    Messages:
    767
    Likes Received:
    277
    Location:
    Washington
    Truck:
    1973 hilux
    It could just be the heavier pistons you are feeling. 4 cylinders are known for being a little shaky.
     
  14. sirdeuce

    sirdeuce Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2020
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    13
    Did you install solid motor mounts? They appear stock in the video. I had a set of Trail Gear 'Bombproof' motor mounts and they were hideous! Rattled the rear view mirror off the mounts. Any thing bound up between the engine/trans anf the chassis?
    Those things I offer as the engine, in the video, seems to run like a 22R to me.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2021
  15. Henry

    Henry Enthusiast

    Joined:
    May 18, 2013
    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Washington State
    It does sound like it's coming from the rockers. I've adjusted them to the best of my ability but it's entirely possible its not where it should be.
     
  16. Henry

    Henry Enthusiast

    Joined:
    May 18, 2013
    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Washington State
    Never considered this. I was just always impressed how smooth the 20R felt once I had the weber installed.
     
  17. Henry

    Henry Enthusiast

    Joined:
    May 18, 2013
    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Washington State
    These are the same mounts I used on the 20R. Honestly that is what it feels like. Not solid mounts, but if you replaced the OEM mounts with something that was stiffer than stock.

    I've looked over the engine and trans and I'm not seeing anything that could be touching and transmitting the vibrations.
     
  18. Pearce

    Pearce Addict

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2019
    Messages:
    767
    Likes Received:
    277
    Location:
    Washington
    Truck:
    1973 hilux
    How is it running with it at lower idle? Reading back on on how dropping the idle made it worse has me wondering if it's the tune still. I think if you set you idle to 850 you can quickly eliminate that if it's not getting better or worse with few adjustments of the carb and timing. The rockers could just need a good valve lash adjustment done hot. Could also be the wrong oil for the weather. Check for valve stem damage and good contact on the set screws.
     

Share This Page