89-95 2wd BIG BRAKE CONVERSION (NOT WILLWOOD) With off the shelf parts!

Discussion in 'Suspension/Chassis' started by Gadgedizzle, Aug 13, 2012.

  1. Gadgedizzle

    Gadgedizzle Member

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    So I got tired of looking everywhere and finding that Even the pre-runner guys are using these puny ass stock 10"x.75" brakes on their builds trying to stop 31 to 33" tires.. I don't know how they manage unless they drive like grandma..

    I only push the envelope with this subject because I don't like spending more money than I have to, and I don't always believe that what everyone says is true just because they said it.. (You need to learn to question....EVERYTHING.)
    I also decided this was a mandatory upgrade since I just recently did a Corvette LT4 6-speed swap, and the bigger brakes are mandatory if I plan on driving it somewhat like it's a Corvette. (Why do you think corvettes have such big brakes?)

    So long story short, I wanted to build a brake system that used OFF THE SHELF OEM PARTS That you can cat at any o'reilly, autozone, napa auto or any other parts house for that matter. I started with a nissan 350Z rotor.. I decided against it just because the offset of it was questionable.. I did find another rotor that I can promise everyone stocks and is 12.44" x 1.1" which dwarfs the stock 10" x 0.75" rotors, as well as a single piston caliper which uses a pad that's roughly 30% larger than the stock 1-ton brake pads. I used single piston because there is a bit of congestion around the caliper side of the brakes. control arms, and sway bar seem to be a thing that worries me most. This single caliper is more than enough to stop this truck without making much heat.. I agree it isn't as cool as the 4 piston calipers, but I'd rather have mad steering angle than worry about what idiots (People that don't know what they're looking at) think..

    So, here's what I came up with.. This brake kit for both sides cost me less than $500 using all brand new parts, and includes everything from hoses to studs. This setup should provide about 300% more stopping power, and 400% more thermal stability than the stock brakes.. that means you can tow, hammer them with high speeds, or even run big tires and these brakes won't care one bit.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Erwin Merida likes this.
  2. Da_Roach

    Da_Roach Toyotaholic

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    Looks real nice.are you going to start selling these kits? Also how heavy is this setup?
     
  3. dillinja666

    dillinja666 Toyotaholic

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    While its nice you have that big rotor it looks like the bad stops touching a half inch from the bottom of the breaking surface. Also I would like to see if the pad is hanging off the edge of the rotor. The second pic looks like it is. It's cool that you got a big break setup, but another part of the system is the master cylinder. If the pistons on those new calipers are bigger then the stock ones too much, the master cylinder might not have enough displacement to apply even stock brakeing pressure on those pads.

    Also there doesn't seem to be any threads left on your lug nut/wheel stud combo, that might be an issue when you slap rims on there. Maybe the lugs are not tighten down all the way, but if they are the edge of the rotor where it meets the hub in the center has a funky lip on it, and the holes for the studs looks bigger then the studs. I've seen that issue on after market rotors before and they would make a loud click at times as the rotor shifted on the hub.

    Just my 2 cents on the build, I could be wrong on my worries, seeing in person and pics on the interweb and vastly different.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2012
  4. Gadgedizzle

    Gadgedizzle Member

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    The lug issue is null. there are 14.2mm - M12x1.5 lugs available that are 6mm longer than stock (not installed in these pics) that will make up for the 6mm of rotor thickness.

    To address the clicking rotor issue you may have seen? Use the correct lug torque and torque in the correct pattern and you will not have that problem. the lugs are only supposed to center the wheel assembly and clamp it to the hub assembly. The friction between the hub/rotor/wheel is supposed to be strong enough that the friction between them alone is not able to let any of the components move independently.. I don't know the exact math but I know it's somewhere in the 10's of thousands of pounds of clamping force.

    the rotor being used was designed for a much larger pad/caliper combo so this is why it appears that the caliper is not sized properly for this particular rotor. However the clearances are correct and the entire pad covers 100% of the outermost surface of the rotor and does NOT overhang the edge of the rotor. The pads being used are MUCH larger than the stock toyota pads and offer much better heat control during extreme conditions.

    As for the master cylinder. The Toyota 2wd is rocking a 3/4" master cylinder. While this will work just fine, the pedal will travel a little more than normal and the brakes will seem a little softer. These calipers were paired with a 1.06" master cylinder in their OEM application, and luckily Toyota 4x4's and 4runners both come with a 1" master. These are a bolt on swap. Swap that and you're home free.

    while I won't sell the kits for liability reasons, I will sell the template so you can make or have them made yourself. I used 5/16 plate in this kit.. If I had to do it all over, I'd use 7/16 just so I don't have to use additional 3mm of shim to get the correct alignment. everything literally just falls together. :)

    Here's pics of the alignment.. BTW, as far as wheels.. the car this setup came off of was OEM with 16 inch steel wheels. So although it won't fit your 15's, it will reasonably fit 16" wheels.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  5. White Trash

    White Trash Toyotaholic

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    This is exactly what I've been thinking of for my next project. What's the application for the calipers and rotors?
     
  6. Robert m

    Robert m Addict

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    that part right there is why most the offroad/prerunner guys dont upgrade to bigger brakes. 99% of us in this generation of pickup run 15'' wheels and they dont have enough room inside to go bigger. the reason we run 15'' and not a bigger wheel is because we would be loosing sidewall hight in the tire. and while upgrading to a 16'' or 17'' doesnt sound like a whole lot to loose, it could be the difference between blowing a bead or bending a rim on a rock with a lower profile tire. plus 16'' offroad tires are not very common. 17''s are getting to be pretty common but only if you run 35''+ tires. which running a 35 or bigger on a 2wd spindle is asking for a bunch of trouble.
     
  7. patrickgraven

    patrickgraven Veteran

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    not to mention tires are cheaper in a 15". When mine was a prerunner I had 2 full size spares. Its a lot cheaper to have 15" wheels and tires. And when mine was lifted I never had issues stopping and I certianly didn't drive like a grandma (still don't now).
     
  8. patrickgraven

    patrickgraven Veteran

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    the setup looks good by the way. You have any pic of it on your truck. what parts did you use to complete the swap.
     
  9. V8_TITAN

    V8_TITAN Toyotaholic

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    ok sounds awesome but how about some part numbers ? or info on what cars the parts come off of ?
     
  10. dillinja666

    dillinja666 Toyotaholic

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    hm.....
     
  11. Gadgedizzle

    Gadgedizzle Member

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    Parts list.

    (these are the NAPA part numbers for the parts I used.)

    2000 Crown Vic rotor NB 4886744
    1995 Crown Vic caliper CAL SE5162A
    CAL SE5161A
    1997 camry hoses BH380922
    BH380923
    banjo bolt H9469-2 or 484-201.1 (x2)
    Studs M12x1.5 610-462 (x10)
    caliper bolts M14x2.0 - 30mm of thread, grade 10.9(x4)
    caliper bracket bolt M12x1.75 - 22mm of thread, grade 10.9 (x4)

    You also need to turn your hub OD down just a little so the brake rotor will slip over it. If your machinist is awesome, you can turn the hub down to about 0.005" smaller than the ID of the rotor and this will center the rotor on the hub. Otherwise you're going to need to make a hub centric ring to center the rotor.. There is approx a 0.198" difference between the hub OD and the rotor hub bore ID. Also, the bolts I used for the bracket to the spindle can change to whatever you wanna use as long as it's M12 and long enough to engage in all the thread in the bracket itself. I used 1.75 pitch because it gets a nice solid bite. Finer threads are a little more temperamental and prone to stripping out IMO.. Side note.. I made the bracket out of 5/16 plate which required ~3mm of shim to get a good alignment. If I was to use 7/16" plate, it will bolt right up with no shim since it's 3.175mm thicker.

    IF I'm not mistaken, 2000 Crown vic calipers should also work and are 2 piston. Only reason I didn't use them is becuse I'm planning on drifting the truck and the more turning angle I can get, the better. So I need to be able to tuck the caliper between UCA, LCA, and a 30mm sway bar.. We'll see how it fits in a bit.

    :)

    Good luck to those of you that want to attempt it.
     
  12. Gadgedizzle

    Gadgedizzle Member

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    ok, so here's the situation.. I locktite'd the bolts on the caliper and the bracket.. Locktite blue. The install and all clearances were PERFECT.. I have TONS of room on the 17" 1999 mustang GT wheels that I'm rocking for the time being. I bet you could fit 16's no problem.. And for all you trolls out there, this isn't a real problem.. the list of performance tires in 15" wheels does not exist (Cooper cobra and Mastercraft GT's are NOT performance tires.) All the performance tires are 16" wheels and up, hence why this brake swap is so fitting.

    anyhow.. I digress..

    installed new inner and outter wheel bearings and new dust seals, instsalled new longer wheel studs, everything installed and torqued with locktite blue, brakes gravity bled (It was rediculously easy.. As easy as connecting the hose and cracking the bleeder open and waiting till it starts leaking.) and bolted the wheels on with new brakes installed.. the new wheel studs leaxe exactly as much thread left as before I did the swap with the old brakes! I gotta say, they're not even broken in yet and they feel absolutely amazing! I haven't changed to the 1" 4runner/4x4 master yet, but I need to as the pedal is low with the smaller stock 2wd master.. I gotta say, this is the most amazing improvement I've felt since the Corvette V8 swap. :)

    This is the 12.4" rotor installed in a 17" wheel.. They were designed to fit a stock 16" wheel on a 2000 crown victoria, so you should have no problems with a 16" wheel either.
    [​IMG]

    Here's a shot from the front of the truck looking back toward the caliper on the driver side, fully locked in a left turn. There's tons of room!
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2012
  13. White Trash

    White Trash Toyotaholic

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    Perfect that's exactly what I wanted to know. Something to think about with the larger master you will probably get a much stiffer pedal even though it is the factory ford bore size. I'm sure the ford has a MUCH larger booster to go along with that master. You can swap a V6 or turbo 4 cylinder booster on there and it will match the master nicely.
     
  14. Gadgedizzle

    Gadgedizzle Member

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    You know.. I didn't realize there were so many different boosters for these trucks.. There's a
    9-1/2" Single diaphragm (2wd)
    8-3/4" Dual diaphragm (2wd)
    9-3/4" Dual diaphragm (4x4)

    :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2012
  15. mprtftr

    mprtftr Enthusiast

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    So, you can't use the Crown Vic caliper bracket? I'm not all that great at machining parts. Or, is this the part you're willing to make and sell?
     
  16. Gadgedizzle

    Gadgedizzle Member

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    the crown vic bracket is what the caliper attaches to and supports the brake pads. there is a bracket that must be made of 5/16" plate (if you're ok with using an additional 3mm of spacers) or preferrably 7/16" plate (and it will be bolt on with no spacers) to bolt to the caliper bracket.
     
  17. Gadgedizzle

    Gadgedizzle Member

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    so, now that I have this out of the way.. I'm thinking with all that power up front, I need to put it to the ground.. I'm starting off with a hard to find V6/Turbo 8" diff out of an 86 toyota 2wd pickup. It's soon going to get a MKIII supra LSD carrier and a gear change with a upgrade kit from Wier Machining in American canyon, Then off to make a 10-11" Rear disc brake upgrade for it. I found the Diff at Pacific Auto Salvage in American Canyon Ca.. Talk to john if you need parts, he was SUPER helpful and one of the nicest guys I know in the industry.

    [​IMG]

    To be continued.
     
  18. White Trash

    White Trash Toyotaholic

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    That particular setup is hard to find factory bit simple AMD cheap in the aftermarket. An off the shelf 4 speed or 1 ton will have an 8" diff also. V6 3rd members are plentiful in the 4x world cheap too.


    Although now that I think about it you have s V6/turbo diff which has different carrier bearings than its 4 cylinder brother. Is the MKIII of the V6 variety?
     
  19. Gadgedizzle

    Gadgedizzle Member

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    See, here in-lies a bunch of hear say..

    From what I've gathered, all the 8" truck diffs have the same bearings with exception of the very rare 4.88 diff. Then I hear that the 4cyl 8" and the turbo/v6 diffs are different, which makes more sense to me. However, I've also read a bunch of places that you can use the V6/turbo Carriers, in the 4-cyl housings if you use the correct bearings. This is awesome because I'm going to Rock the MK3 supra diff, and bearing options are plentiful. so I'm not worried about it. :)

    only real question is..... Are the 4-cyl 8" diff and the turbo/V6 8" diff both using 30 spline axles? Hopefully so, since the supra is 30 spline.

    Here's where I've got some of my info.
    Erik's Toyota Differential info
     
  20. mprtftr

    mprtftr Enthusiast

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    I know that the caliper attaches to the bracket, but you didn't put the bracket in the parts list. You also said that you made brackets from 5/16" plate and also mentioned using 7/16" plate to eliminate the use of shims. I'm just trying to make sure I'm understanding what is necessary to do something like this. Also, is there another Ford rotor that wouldn't require being shaved down?
     

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