4wd brake conversion

Discussion in 'Suspension/Chassis' started by Litneon, Jun 17, 2007.

  1. Litneon

    Litneon Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Ok, this is for all of you who have asked for a write up on the brake conversion.

    It all started when I was looking for a better way to stop my pickup.
    I frequent car shows here in Central Florida and see cars with brakes like these all the time......


    [​IMG]


    Well, why the heck can't I have something this big?
    That got me thinking. I looked online and found one such big brake kit for my truck. The company wanted more than $1400 for the kit! It was nice, and used the Wilwood Ultra Lite calipers and a stand that would adapt the new rotor to the old mount. Now don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with this kit except that for what you get, the price is Amazing (amazingly terrible).

    So, I started thinking again. I love to engineer and fabricate. And if someone tells me it can't be done, I'll likely prove them wrong.
    I had a set of 4wd calipers. I knew since they have four pistons about the same size of the single piston in the stock calipers, then they have the potential to have four times the stopping power over the stock set. Also, with a larger fluid volume inside the caliper they would be less prone to "boiling".


    [​IMG]


    I went to my buddies' truck, (used to be mine) and measured the rotor. It is a '95 4runner on which I performed a solid axle swap. The FJ rotors that I installed on it measured 12"+/- and .8" thick (vented). This matched up with a popular and not too expensive rotor manufactured by Wilwood.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    You can see that the size difference is pretty dramatic. Going from a 10" rotor to a 12.1" rotor ought to make a substantial impact over the stock setup too.
    Once I had all the parts and had the rotor mounted, I got to work. After an hour or two of measuring, marking, and cutting I had a set of these.....


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2007
  2. Litneon

    Litneon Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Now, I know some of you are thinking "how did he make those amazingly sweet looking stands?"
    Don't be going off on my fab skills. Just kidding...... I only had a port-a-band and a grinder when I made these.

    Anyway, they are just mock-ups. I wasn't too concerned on how they look, I just wanted them to work.

    Where am I? Oh yes. Assembly. I chose to weld a set of nuts to the backside of the stand to facilitate a faster R&D. And started test fitting.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

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    You can see that everything centered perfectly on the first try and that the difference in size between the stock caliper and the new 4wd setup is awesome! I couldn't wait to see the difference in performance.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Litneon

    Litneon Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I will get all the part numbers and post them and the costs soon. For the time being, you can visit the other thread to get the part numbers.

    MTB68TOY is ordering a set of the stands that he has designed. You can get in on his buy and make this a total bolt on kit.:)
     
  4. Litneon

    Litneon Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Ok, The hat adapters best price came from Jeg's:

    [​IMG]

    They run $47.98 each.

    The rotors are from Summit racing:

    [​IMG]

    They run $81.95 each

    You can upgrade to the slotted and drilled rotors:

    [​IMG]

    At $136.95 They might be worth the extra money to not have to look at the occasional rust spots.

    You will then need the 4wd calipers:

    [​IMG]

    I found mine at a Bennet Auto Supply loaded for under $40 a piece with a $40 core charge. MTB68TOY said that he had found them on Ebay also.

    So last but not least you will need the stands.

    I believe that MTB68TOY is selling his for around $100 a set with the rotor mounting hardware.

    So, you will have around $550 invested by the time you complete the conversion depending on what kind of deal you find on caplipers and which rotors you use.
    You can use your old brake lines, you will need to bend the hardline slightly to assure that it will not rub on the tire.
    For the money, you won't find a better upgrade on a Toyota Pickup.
     
  5. MTB68TOY

    MTB68TOY Addict

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    Rotors

    Do some research online for the rotor price. I found a site that had them for about $78 and since Jegs price matches (our prices won't be undersold) LOL! You can get them to match the price and I believe they cover shipping costs so you can order the hats and rotors from them for the best price/shipping cost combo....
     
  6. MTB68TOY

    MTB68TOY Addict

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    Last edited: Jun 18, 2007
  7. MTB68TOY

    MTB68TOY Addict

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    Hey Litneon.... do you know the model number of those drilled slotted rotors... I am thinking of getting them and having trouble finding them....
     
  8. Litneon

    Litneon Super Moderator Staff Member

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    The drilled and slotted rotors are a Wilwood part number 160-7105 and 160-7106. You have to get one of each to get driver and passenger sides.
     
  9. yotadude

    yotadude Newbie

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    Just order with Jegs. Total was $261 and change. Price match was no problem.
     
  10. 93Yoter

    93Yoter Addict

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    hmmm looks like I need to start saving! Unfortunately I have to buy new tires first (400 buck), and save for school. I at least need to save up for the adapter. Has anyone seen a rear disc brake conversion for these trucks?
     
  11. yotadude

    yotadude Newbie

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    What pads are you guys going to be running? I was thinking of Axxis Ultimates. Any plans for a rear disk with parking brakes?
     
  12. M_I_Zombie

    M_I_Zombie Newbie

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    Question for you Liteon, your pics above looks like you have about a 1 - 1 1/2in. bolt on spacer? Is this for your rim backspacing or is it due to the new brake set up? ie. hat spacing, rim size, clearance ?
     
  13. M_I_Zombie

    M_I_Zombie Newbie

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    Thats a simple and cheap one, use 84-86 SVO mustang rotors, mid 80's Caddy rear calipers. Runs about $250 + machining of the brackets which you can get off ebay for about $60


    Or find you a donor Ford explorer (98 + ) with rear disc brakes and a mod the brackets. I got mine from the salvage yard for $100 for the whole rearend.
     
  14. yotadude

    yotadude Newbie

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    I don't want to go the caddy rear caliper setup.
    Any pics of the explorer setup?
     
  15. M_I_Zombie

    M_I_Zombie Newbie

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    At the moment I don't have any pics, everything is out being powder coated. Only thing I had to do to make it fit was enlargen the holes on the mounting bracket and make connectors for the brake line to mate up. I should have the rear end back in about 2 weeks if everything goes well with the guys schedule. I would have coated it all myself but I didn't want to build that big of an oven. Once I get it back I'll post up some pics on what I did and to install it.


    Another cheaper route would be to use 80's monte carlo front calipers but that eliminates the use of the ebrake.
     
  16. Litneon

    Litneon Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes, the spacer is there only for the wheel backspacing.
    As far as pads, unless you are trying to get a bit less brake dust, the loaded caliper's pads are more than enough (they aren't bad). I'm not sure if you realize how big of a difference this upgrade is. Performance pads are usually a last resort for more stopping power in a situation where you can't apply more clamping force or more mechanical advantage (rotor size). We increase both here.

    Not to say that you shouldn't upgrade, but to keep the project budget under control, there is no need.
     
  17. 93Yoter

    93Yoter Addict

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    mtb pm sent.
     
  18. yotadude

    yotadude Newbie

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    After swapping the brakes is there a need to upgrade the master cylinder?
    or the brake booster? I've seen Chevy MC and T100 brake booster used by guys on yotatech. Will this be necessary?
     
  19. M_I_Zombie

    M_I_Zombie Newbie

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    The booster should be fine but I'd highly recommend a proportioning valve. You can nabb 'em from the toy 4wd or get them for about $30-40 from summit or jegs/ Without a prop. valve you'll be locking up brakes all the time.
     
    K94yota likes this.
  20. Litneon

    Litneon Super Moderator Staff Member

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    The stock master cylinder and booster work great.
    There should already be a LSPV (load sensing proportioning valve) on the pickups. Personally I ditched mine for a manual wilwood unit. The stock unit will do nicely if no mods to ride height have been made. However if you lower the truck and do not adjust the LSPV, it will look at the lower height as an increase in load and apply more pressure to the rear brakes, possibly making them easier to lock up in a panic stop.

    The other thing to keep in mind is that if you remove the LSPV and install a Manual PV you will need to remove the brake line that runs from the LSPV to the front brakes on the passenger frame rail. This line recirculates the excess pressure from the rear brakes to the fronts and is not needed for the Manual unit.
     

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