I've just begun looking into it but i'm trying to run the 22r with either the regular ol 32/36 or some form of a application specific carb. I don't know if they are worth the cash or not, but it would be slightly offset by selling the weber.

I'd like to boost at ~8-10 lbs on a T28 or one step up and hopefully pull 250 on stock internals. I have yet to look at gauges and controllers as I really am not sure of large components yet. I'm not so sure I want to run the weber as they are so damn temperamental in normal conditions that i'd like to run a demon or holly or comparable that offer more/better tunability.

I can either splurge for the 700 dollar LC turbo manifold or just have one built that is truck specific for my exhaust situation (bodied and cramped obviously).

What would a weber 40-45 be comparable to when looking at other carbs, something like a 450-500? I've seen a couple other setups, but noone gives details or experience after hundreds of miles.

Edit: I really like the rectangular timer/AF Gauge better. Would look good and stay put if flushed into a console but still removable.

 

Oh and as a side note, there is a company called MX Racing on ebay that sells a generic kit with some elbows and what not that has gotten pretty good reviews. A smallish intercooler and piping for ~179 if I remember right.

 

I was going to run the 32/36. But I may run a Holley 2 barrel built for draw through. They are $400-500, and very simple to tune. Everything can be done externally on the carb, and they are already set up with a boost operated proportioning valve.

I would probably have a header built, because with a draw through the carb will be there too. Which makes turbo placement tricky. I ran out of room quick on this car because it has a really stupid frame design that made everything way harder than it needed to be. Same thing I ran into when building his other car trying to do a V8 swap.

I like the turbo timer version too, it looks cool and a timer is a good idea.

I'm thinking you should probably run a small T3. Much more common, and the T28 is too small I think. I've seen guys put them on VW 1600s, and swap to T3s and like them better. You can run a smaller impeller if you want it to spool faster. But a 42/48 T3 is what I will run on my truck. They came on lots of vehicles, and some came with a carbon seal from the factory, which will save you some cash on converting it over.

I think 250 HP might be hoping for a lot. In theory, you would probably need closer to 15 lbs to achieve that. And I am unsure stock internals will live up to that.

Running 8-10 PSI, you will want to rebuild the head, and possibly upgrade your valve springs. Get a turbo head gasket, and run ARP head studs, and you will probably be fine. I plan to start at 5 PSI, and go from there.

You will want to run a pretty free flowing exhaust. And you can't run an intercooler with draw through. You can send an air/fuel mixture through an intercooler. Potential bomb basically. The fuel cools your air charge a bit, but under heavier boost, you may want to look into water or methanol injection.

 

Maybe i was thinking right the first time. I want to do a blow-through system on my 22r. I'm not sure I like the idea of an AF mix running through the turbo itself.

These are the two setups I have been able to find.

I like the simplicity of this one, but no way am I going to run the piping over my valve cover, way too tall.


This one is awesome, because I could run it in front of the VC...or to the intercooler which I guess both could...but i'm not running side drafts.

 

Forget everything I said in that last post. I was not in my right mind haha. I don't like the idea of an AF mix in the turbo/intercooler setup...but blow-through doesn't allow for an intercooler at all.

That being said, don't most SC setups have to deal with the vacuum created? Do they use special sort of carbs for that as well?

____

Everything I have read on blow-through systems seems to agree that intercoolers aren't possible... but I found this.

http://garageautohero.wordpress.com/2010/05/26/domestic-disturbance/

He seems to have figured out how to run one, whether its effective or not...I don't know.

They basically work off exhaust pressure or what? His looks like the exhaust runs to a collector, to the compressor and out the back of the compressor to the back of the car/truck...basically exhaust. The others i've seen are different from this guys as the intake goes directly to the compressor, but I haven't been able to see the exhaust in the pics. His intake seems to cross the motor go to the intercooler and meet back at the compressor case with the exhaust. Is an intercooler really that effective when its mixing with hot gases as well? Maybe i'm looking at the system wrong.

Air is sucked in through the turbine, into the intercooler into the intake, but exhaust is put into the compressor as well....

 

nevermind, i went stupid more than i thought i guess lol. that whole last part needs to be deleted. apparently this forum doesn't allow that.

that being said, why cant you use an intercooler exactly...

 

If you are going turbo you can run an intercooler. It will only require more piping so then there will be a bit of pressure drop.

 

I've read multiple places that a blow-through system as shown does not allow for the use of an intercooler.

 

As shown in those 2 pics above? All it would take is some piping... I'm kinda confused about the terms draw through and blow through. Is one of them talking about a carbed and turbo engine? Or maybe you are talking superchargers and turbochargers?

 

You can absolutely run an intercooler with blow through. You can't run one with draw through because the air fuel mix is too dense to consistently make it through the intercooler.

Why don't you like the idea of the A/F mix going through the turbine? There is nothing wrong with it, and many factory cars have used this setup in the past. Blow through I feel is a little more difficult to set up. You need a specific carburetor and fuel regulator to do it, among other things. Draw through just seems more simple to me. Turbos and carburetors arent really the best way to go, but I feel like draw through is more reliable. Check out Lobugget.com, they have been doing draw through on VWs for years now and have a really reliable system.

 

to me anyways, it seems like having a system that allows fuel to sit stagnant at any point within the system would become faulty quicker than one who doesn't. I'm probably wrong, just how I thought about it. I will look into them more I guess.

 

So Seth, what you did on that build was basically build a one-off intake manifold and carb mount, right? I notice all the old carb setups on the hamb have spacers that allow the turbo pull from, yours is just custom made. Looks good, and kinda crazy since the carb is no longer in a stock location.

 

The fuel would only sit stagnant when the vehicle is not running, the same as in the intake directly below the carb on a stock setup. And the amount of fuel would be minimal. While the motor is running, the turbo is always spinning and fuel is always moving through it, never sitting stagnant, even if you are not creating boost. The A/F ratio is more dense than just air, which slightly slows down the turbo and reduces efficiency (but still more efficient than a roots blower). But I think it has its benefits over blow through as well. Since the turbo is in front of the carb, you don't need a special carb to run it. The turbo creates a vacuum, just like your pistons do, which tells the carb it needs fuel. I think this will make tuning easier, since you dont have to wonder what the carb will do under boost, or when there is a lack of boost.

You will need to pull any vacuum from the intake under the carb, instead of your stock intake since it will now be pressurized. Your intake pre turbo will have a vacuum, anything post turbo will have boost. So I will be running the booster off of the carb plenum, or whatever you want to call it.

And yes, you are exactly right. I built a custom intake to mount the carburetor to.


If I was allowed any budget for materials, I would make every part that fuel passes through out of aluminum. But that was not really allowed for this project. I will do it that way on my own project though. I also would have run a Holley 2 barrel built for draw through and easy adjustment, because it would save space and still provide the same amount of fuel and CFM. And it would be so much easier to tune, because it can all be done externally, even float adjustment, while with this carb I will have to take it apart every time I need to adjust something. Which I assume I will be doing a lot of.

And I have seen those setups on the HAMB, its cool that someone makes that piece for doing a draw through. And that works great on old cars with a V8 and a lot of room under the hood. But trying to keep a stock hood on a mini truck (or a Mercedes with a poorly designed frame that allows very little room to put all this stuff) is difficult and an intake like this is necessary I think.

Keeping the intake tubes all as short as possible is important. But since its forced induction its not critical. The only issue it will create is a hard cold start. This is why I ran the tube over the valve cover, so its as straight and short as possible. If I ran it behind or in front of the motor, it may be harder to start since the fuel has to travel further with the motor only spinning at the RPM the starter can create. Once it fires, its all good from there though, and will run normal.

Many GM cars came with factory draw through turbos, and some other cars. Not sure which right now. It was pretty big in the 60s and 70s, but once EFI came around it became a obsolete. I like the idea because it is just really mechanical, and I can do it myself since EFI still boggles my mind.

 

I read about this in a "dated" book called maximum boost by corky bell. Way to keep it old school

 

Loving this build

 

Here is the turbo rebuilt with new internals and converted to a carbon seal.

 

More overall shot, almost ready to start it up.

 

nice setup bro good work looks like itll light the rear up ez.

 

Finally got this thing started! Really made a huge difference. Pulls hard, will burn out, and get loose between gears. Needs a little tuning tomorrow, and some other little stuff. Then build a hood scoop and we're done! Only running 5 psi right now, and it is much, much faster.

 

good job man. glad to hear some first hand feedback on carbed turbo's that aren't big hot rod drag monsters.. i have been debating on making a s/c setup(ton of fab work) or trying the turbo. one of the main concerns for me w/turbo was the idle. i would really appreciate some info on how it does. i read idle would be choppy/kinda crappy from air/fuel mix traveling so far and de-atomizing or whatever more official way of saying it is. and for a car like that idle probably won't matter much if it's only a go fast car . but in doing a 22r setup and street driving i wanted to know how bad it was, or if it is all hype from google certified people that dont know IRL. if it's too bad then maybe propane could be a good option for the 22r... gas not liquid=win
-Ben