So I'm about ready to take the plunge on my hybrid and wanted some input. So far I'm looking at: Pre 84 22r block bored- not sure how much yet, suggestions? 20r head with work- what works best for this build? larger S.S. valves- would love some input on size? LCE Performace stage 3 cam LCE pro cam valtrain kit w/titanium retainers And then there's the piston heads, should I stick with the stock top or is there something better for this setup? LCE offers a hyper set with rings for $150 stock piston type Any input, ideas, or suggestions? Thanks
To be honest, since your buying most your parts from LCE ask the tech guys about your build they are WAY WAY more knowledgeable in the 20/22r world than most any of us here. Even though a lot of guys on here have their own recipe.. LCE have the track record to prove it. To me it sounds pretty good. I wouldn't go crazy on rings, I use cast.. Chrome rings tend to never really break in. Make sure to refresh your timing chain, gears and tensioner. I would read up on 22r valves in a 20r head. seems to be a great way to go as well. As for boring the block I personally prefer to bore as little as possible to gain life out of the block .. If you go to far and you burn it.. well you're stuck finding a new bottom end and having to start over. Also what kind of carb/ intake are you planning on running?
All the builds ive looked at everyone uses mostly stock parts aside from the cam and carb. Domed or pop up pistons(whatever you wana call em) 22r valves in the 20r head (machine work needed) 22r rocker arms (aluminum) Mind you i know next to nothing about engine internals, just repeating what ive read
That seems to be the consensus toward LCE and they're prices are fair for the most part, ill talk their techs before I order anything. Good idea. I believe LCE's kit comes with cast rings but I didn't know that so that's a ice tidbit. I will def be getting a new dual row timing set. I know it's pretty common to do the 22r valves but I'm trying to get as close to 200hp as I can and with the stage2 or 3 cams I need springs and rockers anyways, why not go a couple hundred more and get bigger valves. I think I'm gonna go .030 for the bore. Anyone know a good place to get new rockers(not resurfaced) for less than $400? And carb......I know I don't want side drafts. My buddy says a weber 38 outlaw, but I've read a lot of guys say a holly is easier to tune with these.
Your not going to get anywhere near 200 w a downdraft. And I'd suggest getting lce's hi compression pistons (like 11:1)
^ this Theres no way you'll touch close to 200 with that setup. better look at 22re and boost if you're chasing numbers. my build cost about 4500, I did go conservative but number will be in the vicinity of 160 with sidedrafts. You'd need high comp piston like Raff suggested, major head work, a better intake, much bigger carb and 2.25 full exhaust and even then..
If I were to build one this is the setup I'd do.. -a majorly ports worked 20r head -Engnbldr OS stainless 22r valves (they barely fit the stock 20r valve seat, already have a head getting this done.) -LCE dual valve springs and retainers -milled to fit the laser 22r block -high comp pistons -Dual row chain conversion kit And if I had the money I'd do a stroker crank, but that's a lot of money. Carb and cam are a toss up, many good ones to choose from and depending on what you prefer.. I'd do a holley 500 2bbl if it had to be down draft but preferably it would be side drafts..
i would do: 22r laser block, decked 22r early head (hemi chamber, square intake ports, round exhaust ports) shaved way down w MLS gasket. knife-edge crank ...of course will need to port out pop-up/domed pistons 12.5:1 comp. eagle rods + balance bottom end dual valve spring kit (larger SS valves, dual spring, chromoly retainers) single chain timing kit with adjustable cam gear holly 500 carb with a dual plane manifold LCE stage 4+ cam and a 100shot for sh!ts n giggles
I suppose I should have phrased that differently. I'm not expecting to make 200hp I just want to get as close as possible without breaking the bank. I think it's a cool/fun build but at the $4k mark, in my opinion, this engine is pointless to have built. Ill do some more research on the side drafts and higher comp pistons. They're just so much more expensive I'm not sure it's worth it. Anyone have an intake suggestion?
If you do side drafts your intake isn't an issue.. but if your stuck with a downdraft I would suggest finding a offenhauser dual plane, you can get them in a weber or holley carb bolt pattern.. And for high comp pistons they really aren't that much more. It's 100-150 for a stock style cast piston and rings or less then 500 for a Keith Black set..
If you want an honest opinion, It's absolutely not worth it. Like I said before... If you are chasing numbers this is not the power train that will get you there. It's a fun, reliable motor you're playing with. Sr20, or F20 are a much better platform to achieve numbers.. they rev to the moon but you need to gut out the current setup and start fabing. If you just need a decent truck with ok power but reliable then your heading the right way. Just slap the head on throw a cam and a weber at it.. It'll be just fine. Don't get lost in high perf parts and high mods.. you're wasting your money.. for the 15-20 hp it'll get you its just not an effective way to spend. Key words ' keep it stupid simple'.
This is gospel. Dropping more than $1000 on an r series is full blown nuts. I might have $1100 in my engine and aluminum flywheel/ceramic clutch total and I only spent that much because I'll be using it and the clutch in the next rig I build when I do an engine swap in this truck. If you want 200 hp start with a 2rz and turbo it or a naturally asprated 3sge from a Japanese altezza which the latter is what I'm going with since it comes coupled with a 6 speed trans.
Machining cost alone was 530 bucks.. side draft were 600 not including 220 in rebuild kits. Idk how it was even imaginable to spend only 1k on a build. **** the 22re I bought to do the build was almost a grand!!!! I'm not sure how you build engines but usually my parts list are extensive and expensive.. but.. I get reliability out of it. Sure you can slap a 20/22r hybrid together with a slim budget. That requires hunting used parts, autozone, ebay, traveling to get everything and usually a decent amount of cutting corners.. which tends to lead to a roadkill type build. Which is ok for some of us I choose not to do the work twice.
I should have stated that differently. Spending more than $1000 on performance upgrades for an r series is full blown nuts. If you want a reliable "normal" engine rebuild then sure, spend the cash to make it right. But dropping big money in the search for big horsepower is futile on an r series. Edit: As to how I put my combo together for under $1100 that was easy. $350 9lb flywheel $125 copper ceramic clutch $125 38/38 weber $250 lce header $155 timing cover/timing chain/full gasket set $90 adjustable cam gear $185 under drive pulleys That's actually closer to $1300 now that I type it all out and remember all the parts but I don't feel bad for what it is. It will be fun in whatever super lightweight rig I shove it in next.
I don't know if your parts are made of gold or not, but you really don't need more then $1500 (not including sidedrafts or the DUI dizzy I had..)for a reliable built motor.. I was running 10.5:1 with fully worked head and custom grind cam on stock crank and rods doing just fine, turning 6500+ rpms nearly everytime i drove it and could out pull a friends truck with an Lce stage 5 engine.. And she never missed a beat.. only things I wish I would've done different is run sidedrafts..
I can take a picture of the LCE receipt, they aren't made out of gold but it cost what it cost. I don't make the prices.. Then I have a ton of mics OEM parts. Some powder coating.. and the list goes on. I guaranty you The numbers you guys are thinking are lower than what you actually spent.. builds nickle and dime each and every one of us. How many times did we have to run to the parts store for a bolt, a hose, fluid, brake cleaner.. yea that adds up real fast. 100's flying out the wallet real quick. But when it comes down to it, we all see our builds our own way. I figured it was gonna cost me what it did cause I had an idea what what parts I wanted and I'm dead on target. I could have kept the 20r or buy a 82-84 bottom and avoid most machine cost.. I could have hunted a cheap weber.. I coulda I coulda.. Well I went the way I did cause I had a certain idea in mind.
I guess it also really help to know the right people . I got all my head work done by a friend of mine, for what he charged me to do all the porting and machine work I would've spent triple that at a regular machine shop.. and he does some killer porting.
i prob have about an easy $3000 in motor, drivetrain, and suspension. and i havent even touched the block yet. almost half the cost of what i originally bought the truck for. lol, oh well, thats the game i play.
Remember the other stuff when doing this kind of work. I've blown up 4 driveshaft carrier bearings, motor mounts and 2 w58 transmissions. And I'm not making all the power of like.
